Simulating Green Beard Altruism

27 mar 2021
1 596 945 visualizzazioni

Brilliant: www.brilliant.org/primer
Papers:
- www.researchgate.net/publication/41910312_Altruism_Spite_and_Greenbeards
- www.reed.edu/biology/professors/srenn/pages/teaching/2007_syllabus/2007_readings/a13_Keller_1998.pdf
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Commenti
  • Lots of comments relate to racism, so I think it's worth discussing that a little. Racism in humans is a very complex phenomenon that can't be simply traced to genes. To be honest, I don't think I really understand racism, but I'm confident saying a full understanding would take inputs from biology, psychology, sociology, and history, perhaps more. But as the video explains, the green beard phenomenon is very brittle and rarely shows up in nature, so it's not an explanation, and certainly not a justification for something as complex as racism. Thanks for reading, and be kind to each other. :)

    PrimerPrimerMese fa
    • gta v

      Benjamin FuBenjamin Fu26 giorni fa
    • ims so cinge

      Benjamin FuBenjamin Fu26 giorni fa
    • We gottem folks, gg

      Benjamin FuBenjamin Fu26 giorni fa
    • I think this is enough replies

      Benjamin FuBenjamin Fu26 giorni fa
    • 22=4

      Benjamin FuBenjamin Fu26 giorni fa
  • 10

    Siu Yin WongSiu Yin Wong4 ore fa
  • The racism thread seems to be full, but I wanna share my two bits on it: Racism is extremely simple: "Person is different from me, I don't like that." You see this all over the place in all kinds of different forms. Men vs women, straight vs gay, old vs young, political parties, and so on. "Is there a biological connection?" I don't know. But I know I've seen cats - who were otherwise friends - become nervous when a "friend" suddenly comes home with a lion cut or something like that. Maybe it has something to do with getting away from predators, or, something.

    Amelia FantasiaAmelia Fantasia7 ore fa
  • 10:16 altruism is kinda sus

    Pham-Ngoc HanhPham-Ngoc Hanh11 ore fa
  • I never had great success with maths as my teachers were evil and uninspiring. But I love your simple and easy to follow descriptions and experiments without putting too much ‘behind the scenes’ programming. Thank you

    AddictedFoolGamerAddictedFoolGamer16 ore fa
  • so basically, it pays to virtue-signal and not risk yourself for anyone

    Noah GasslerNoah Gassler18 ore fa
  • “Not gonna lie guys, that red dude is kinda sus-“ *”Wait where did he and Green go?”*

    Definitely Not A Dimension GuideDefinitely Not A Dimension GuideGiorno fa
  • Wait I thought this video was about Tomar

    SpeakMouthWordsSpeakMouthWordsGiorno fa
  • hey Tomar, it's you

    The YellowThe YellowGiorno fa
  • If you want to code for altruism in humans, make it possible for two creatures to work together simultaneously (thereby knocking the predator out for a generation and both surviving) and have two offspring per person if they both work together.

    RaeRaeGiorno fa
  • This video proves the Earth is flat.

    greg thomasgreg thomasGiorno fa
  • If this had any logic or relation to real-life scenarios then it could be used as data for genetics. This way, it is just an entertaining video.

    Csaba BankiCsaba BankiGiorno fa
  • Btw this isn't an altruism simulation it's a racism simulation. Just replace "green beard" with white, or jewish...

    burned headburned headGiorno fa
  • Look Tomar it's YOU!

    Undead_InsideUndead_InsideGiorno fa
  • 10:19 RED IS SUS

    Spook SamSpook Sam2 giorni fa
  • Why is my brain like "It definitely says simulating bird autism"

    Krzysztof KozłowskiKrzysztof Kozłowski2 giorni fa
  • I think something these simulations miss out on is that it takes 2 to reproduce, and that often you want to help someone who is just as strong as you

    CaptainKalusCaptainKalus2 giorni fa
  • In real life, the imposters have big hooked noses, tiny hats, and names that end in -berg or -stein.

    Rabbi Herschel Lieberman-BergblattsteinRabbi Herschel Lieberman-Bergblattstein2 giorni fa
  • Racism is good, actually.

    Rabbi Herschel Lieberman-BergblattsteinRabbi Herschel Lieberman-Bergblattstein2 giorni fa
  • Ey can you simulate what could happend in a zombie apocalypse? With the panic and that stuff? You are the boss

    Migue CalabriaMigue Calabria2 giorni fa
  • You guys don't understand how much Primer loves and cares about his fans And that's why this is pinned

    Patrick Ribeiro EdelmanPatrick Ribeiro Edelman2 giorni fa
  • whats the program you are using?

    Filip HFilip H2 giorni fa
  • I want a green beard blob plushie

    Throw AwayThrow Away2 giorni fa
  • So this is how tribalism evolved?

    Tom ReaTom Rea2 giorni fa
  • John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

    TheModer8terTheModer8ter2 giorni fa
  • Were are these next videos you always talk about?

    most likely a personmost likely a person3 giorni fa
  • you litterally made my day

    MaynardByronMaynardByron3 giorni fa
  • Joshua Tomar simulator

    PanGalaxyPanGalaxy3 giorni fa
  • The ideas of Altruism has always intrigued me and the way you explained them through genes was quite interesting and believable as well. Thanks for posting this video and I hope to see more content from you! Cheers!

    제규형제규형3 giorni fa
  • my heart goes out to the altruistic green beards with imposter syndrome

    Anon JoAnon Jo3 giorni fa
  • I think that a cowardly one getting warned should have a chance of becoming altruistic

    Jean DunhamJean Dunham3 giorni fa
  • When my blob see a pretattor Blob:RUN AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Kiran LoonKiran Loon3 giorni fa
  • I'd have liked to see the regular altruism with the 50% chance of sacrifice, but with the cowardice also having a change to get eaten when it runs (say, 10 or 25%)

    Zeek EverestZeek Everest3 giorni fa
  • I would love to see you run this sim again, but with one change: cowards can learn altruism and altruists can be cowardly (from learning behaviour by way of repeated observation) If a blob sees cowardly or altruistic behaviour more than once, there is a 50/50 chance that their behaviour flips. Then it would be cool to see this ran further with 'only yellows can learn' or 'only blues can learn' as variants. Cool vid - thanks :)

    Bunk's RevengeBunk's Revenge3 giorni fa
  • *a m o g u s*

    Panos kPanos k4 giorni fa
  • he is god in this reality

    DeltaVortexDeltaVortex4 giorni fa
  • I feel if they didn't reproduce asexually the altruism gene would become better.

    A FezA Fez4 giorni fa
  • I can't pretend to be either a geneticist or a sociologist but this really feels more like a social simulation than a genetic one. Like, I know the dude said it was super simplified since there's an insane amount of factors going into this stuff, but it still feels like ignoring those other factors and how observed behaviors affect later actions create the implication that altruism isn't a survival trait even though we know it still exists in people and therefore kinda *has* to have been in some way successful. At least if you connect things like altruism to genetics. Course all of that is just to say that, depending on the environmental factors, removing all the "altruistic" traits from a population could potentially lead to extinction in the long run since "every man (or in this case blob) to himself" is a survival trait that doesn't tend to last super long in a lot of social structures.

    cutekittenladycutekittenlady4 giorni fa
  • 0:09 my brain: COMMUISISM

    Linus SieversLinus Sievers4 giorni fa
  • Not to mention the short timespan of humans. If the blobs have kids every day, then the 60 day trials are like... 60 generations of people, right? What were our ideas on altruism 60 generations ago IRL? You went up to like 300 days in some trials, which must be on the brink of the invention of the wheel for humans, right?

    Socksy _Socksy _5 giorni fa
  • its not altuism, this is just racism?

    ChrisChris5 giorni fa
  • Can you do a simulation of people in traffic. One are calm drivers that stick to 1 lane and will let others in front when they want. The others are fast drivers that switch to the faster lane and will never let anyone ahead. See what happens to the flow. I'd love to see it happen

    EnchanternickEnchanternick5 giorni fa
    • This is a great idea.

      EnigmaGamingEnigmaGaming3 giorni fa
  • 10:13 I really hope that was intentional

    David HilseeDavid Hilsee5 giorni fa
  • Fun with simulation - thanks!

    Pelle Rosell OlesenPelle Rosell Olesen5 giorni fa
  • No beard blob: your only saving other green beards! Green beard blob: yes

    Most Awesome FlyerMost Awesome Flyer5 giorni fa
  • The predators are part of the ecosystem too. The more blobs they eat, the more they will survive to reproduce, so there will be fewer blobs to go around, so the predators will be less well fed, so they will survive to reproduce less effectively etc. And don't forget about the trees!

    Martin WoodMartin Wood5 giorni fa
  • I tought the impostor get voted out

    Kiran LoonKiran Loon5 giorni fa
  • I think it is better to think of early humans (like hunter gatherers) in small groups and study the survival rate of these entire group, and not as in this simulation, the relative rate of kind of people in a large city. Then if the predator is more aggressive than in the simulation, egoist behavior could lead entire egoist groups to exctinction very fast! Altruism is strictly better with the parameters used in the simulation (even, like, 99% death rate for altruists when they ring the alarm), so we should see altruistic groups go extinct less often. Since early humans looked for mates a bit inside, a bit outside the tribe, the altruistic gene would spread quickly (and even altruistic groups would grow in size).

    Jérome KervielJérome Kerviel5 giorni fa
  • This is really to simple of a model to demonstate anything other than a game.

    Gregory SelckGregory Selck6 giorni fa
  • Tomar? Is that you?

    Jaxon StockerJaxon Stocker6 giorni fa
  • Am I the only one who thought he was going to be talking about somebody's beard?

    Addison BrendtroAddison Brendtro6 giorni fa
  • One thing you can add is that altruism may be contagious, for example an impostor or a coward could have a 20% chance becoming altruistic after being saved, maybe that could be a solution even though i think that stops being a "genetic point of view" 😅

    Patricio SilvaPatricio Silva6 giorni fa
  • Isn’t this just tribalism

    It’s Ya boiIt’s Ya boi6 giorni fa
  • Look Tomar that's you.

    J VorheesJ Vorhees6 giorni fa
  • 7:09 Green beards did nothing to drive covards to extinction. Covards did it to themselves. Green beards only helped their kind to survive.

    Dmytro ParkhomenkoDmytro Parkhomenko6 giorni fa
  • As one notable behavioural scientist once said, and I loosely quote, "Characterizing behaviour is like finding the area of a rectangle. You have to have two parameters, height and width. As the area of a rectangle, behaviour is characterized by genes and the environment. The more you focus on one thing the effect of the other will fade away and your results will be completely wrong." I see you have only considered genes in this simulation. Therefore, I'm not taking this simulation as a valid argument of how altruism works. P.S: Don't get me wrong. I've been a huge fan of your work for a long time. And will continue to be so.

    Dungeon DogsDungeon Dogs6 giorni fa
  • "Look tomar, it's you."

    GiraGira6 giorni fa
  • 10:19 SUS RED SUS SUSSY

    Traves Cot BurgerTraves Cot Burger6 giorni fa
  • Tribalism simulator.

    Cinderheart MLPCinderheart MLP7 giorni fa
  • I'm disappointed there are no comments about Deep Rock Galactic

    bob potterbob potter7 giorni fa
  • This video blew up, I wonder if the numbers are fudged

    recca12recca127 giorni fa
  • look tomar its you!

    PopilishisPopilishis7 giorni fa
  • Survival isn’t cowardice lol, what a human thing to be degrading towards those who want to survive. I’m all about being altruistic, but calling it cowardice adds bias to your experiment imo. Should of called it “self preservation”.

    Albert WeskerAlbert Wesker7 giorni fa
  • In this video, we don't really test biological aspects but rather behavioural ones. As a consequence, it would be interesting when looking about behaviour or morality to stop calling theses genes but "traits", taught by the parent. Regarding transmission, parents raise their children (as in real life) hence transmitting their traits. This could lead to events called "change of behaviour". For example, a coward saved by an altruist (sucker or green beard) would become altruist after recognising the value of such gesture. On the other hand a "sucker" could become a green beard if it had the chance to save another soul. In this later case, the community recognises the quality of this person. We could add so much complexity to any of these simulations, it is amazing what you are doing thank you. End note: it would be important to change the vocabulary as young people also tend to watch your amazing vids in order not to confuse them between what is biological (fixed over the entire duration of your life) and what's behavioural (things learnt that can be unlearnt)

    romain duquesneromain duquesne7 giorni fa
  • Primer it's been a whole month now when are we getting a new video

    AngadSEOAngadSEO7 giorni fa
  • I notice the old video on altruism has been removed? I am so confused.

    weckarweckar7 giorni fa
  • Models two (cowardly vs altruistic blobs, 50% chance of death if altruism triggers) and three (cowardly vs altruistic blobs, 10% chance of death if altruism triggers) appear to have the results they have due to a MAJOR procedural flaw: no mention is made of whether cowardly blobs can fail to escape predators. The observer can only assume that cowardly blobs will always escape predation, making their survival inevitable. That concern aside, I personally suspect that the simplistic coward/altruist model could have been more successful in an environment with a higher proportion of hazardous trees to safe trees. My reasoning is that the effectiveness of a warning call increases the more blobs are warned off by it. There is still the risk that the cycle will just repeat until the altruists have yelled themselves to death until there's not enough altruists visiting the same tree to benefit from this effect, and the additional risk that a high enough predator population might decimate all of the blobs outright, but it is feasible that the simplified model might achieve equilibrium under some circumstances. Though in practice, even if cowardly blobs can fail to run away, there's also the flaw that there's no elaboration concerning how effective warning calls are relative to cowardly behavior. Can the warning call fail to alert blobs? Will the chance of a cowardly blob attempting to flee be affected by the presence of a warning call, and if so by how much? EDIT: The green beard sim has the same flaws, and relies on the assumption that the cowardly blobs will completely ignore warning calls, so I'm just straight calling bullshit on the utility of this simulation.

    ChaosvoltChaosvolt7 giorni fa
  • bruh did you just unwittingly make a mathematical case against homogeneity and for ethnostates? nice

    UhbliviunUhbliviun7 giorni fa
  • Question: Would you accept Romanian Dubs subs?

    M HM H8 giorni fa
  • Red blob sUs

    Lisioketchum GamerLisioketchum Gamer8 giorni fa
  • Coding for in-group bias works.

    a. s.a. s.8 giorni fa
  • Decency is a weakness. Got it.

    chaosincarnachaosincarna8 giorni fa
  • What’s the real estate market like there?

    samdog166samdog1668 giorni fa
  • "The cowardice gene will be yellaw" Subtle, but a good one.

    Dickweasle AssmasterDickweasle Assmaster8 giorni fa
  • "The first to go are the suckers. They help, but no one helps them" Can't believe this man literally simulated white people

    Skogi BSkogi B8 giorni fa
  • they are always gonna die but they will die on different times

    zept0zept08 giorni fa
  • ok i watched the fucking video youtube now please get out pf my reccomeneded

    SuicidaltourtiseSuicidaltourtise8 giorni fa
  • It would be really neat to see a variable on this that adds in a chance for blobs that were saved by altruism to gain the trait. Kind of a chance to develop morals.

    Bradly HuffmanBradly Huffman8 giorni fa
  • Hey look, it's Tomar

    Ciarán BowieCiarán Bowie9 giorni fa
  • What do you use to make these dude?

    Brooks PearsonBrooks Pearson9 giorni fa
  • Loved the video. Would be cool to see as simulation where once cowards were saved by an altruist, they had some % chance to act in an altruistic way themselves.

    h3artonfireh3artonfire9 giorni fa
  • look tomar it's you

    Leo ALeo A9 giorni fa
  • I love these videos so much, I wish this was a game, I could just plug in the criteria and just watch it go.

    Z-MK GamingZ-MK Gaming9 giorni fa
  • look Tomar its you.

    EmutesterEmutester9 giorni fa
  • Now imagine if those impostors were altruistic towards each other but not the true beards, whereas the true beards were altruistic toward both. They'd have the beards support and they'd have control over every institution in the country. It would be a massacre.

    Johnny SteenJohnny Steen9 giorni fa
  • So Altruism can be boiled down to simple Game Theory enforced by Natural Selection. So much for divine morality....

    john youngjohn young9 giorni fa
  • 4:30 What happens when two altruism blobs at the same tree yelling to warn each other? Do they each have 10% death chance or just one of them do?

    McGMcG9 giorni fa
  • Maybe the danger of a predator should vary in scale and people should be altruistic if they are in low danger and cowardly if the threat is high?

    Krzysztof PławskiKrzysztof Pławski9 giorni fa
  • It's interesting to see the effect in a closed system, but I always imagined the selection being on a more macro level, groups being more successful as a whole when altruism propagates in the community, selecting indirectly. Surprised there wasn't a head to head in that regard, altruistic village VS. cowardly.

    River O.River O.9 giorni fa
  • what is the musoc called in 1:05

    Some fat guySome fat guy9 giorni fa
  • I feel like the actions of groups should have a chance of changing members of other groups into their own type. For example, if a coward is saved by a altruist, there should be a small chance that the coward is converted into an altruist. Or if a altruist witnesses a coward saving their own skin, there should be a small chance that they turn into a coward. Your algorithm doesn't take into account the interactions and ever changing nature of individuals.

    Dalton BakerDalton Baker9 giorni fa
  • its tomar

    Crimson CamelliaCrimson Camellia9 giorni fa
  • *population gets halved* "so this ecosystem is *mostly* stable"

    Miguel GudinoMiguel Gudino9 giorni fa
  • I’m a little confused. When there are two Alleles at a tree, which one gets priority? 50/50 chance?

    Clank4PrezClank4Prez9 giorni fa
  • imagine if my teacher could be like him and atually be entertaining while teaching? maybe i would have pay attention more in class than spit out stupid ass biology vocab on a paper. I love biology its very intresting but my teacher made me hate it

    ninjabieberninjabieber9 giorni fa
  • What about if 50% of the time the True Beards noticed an imposter and left them to die?

    BhumeBhume10 giorni fa
  • In the original test I think there was a bias against cowardice since there was a chance for the target blob to escape under the altruism type.

    jrodificator1jrodificator110 giorni fa
  • Why is this guy not verified?

    The Nfl DudeThe Nfl Dude10 giorni fa
  • Mabey the model doesn't take into account the fact people would realise your not altruistic and stop helping you over time, might be an interesting parameter to add

    Eric WalshEric Walsh10 giorni fa
  • And yet when i suggest that people should only help helpful people i'm somehow worse than someone who is outright selfish.

    Visorian nullVisorian null10 giorni fa
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